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Project Development / Re: Analysing Decentralised Exchanges
« on: April 19, 2018, 01:59:50 am »
Hey, 27! Welcome. I have a high opinion of Baboulinet.

Well, the 'core document' is on this site -- and you, of course, can always update-and-repost it.
On Bitcointalk, I am member 'IMZ.'
On Telegram, I am member 'mark blair.'


General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: March 11, 2018, 08:09:21 am »
This thread is now closed; but I will be here every day, working on:


Project Development / Analysing Decentralised Exchanges
« on: March 11, 2018, 08:02:40 am »
This data is rapidly falling out of date.

Copy the doc as it is; add your notes; re-post the updated doc. OR send me notes any other way, and I shall add them here

'Most [DEXes] are not easily usable, struggle with liquidity, do not provide fiat payments etc.'

Lightning Trader, thanks for this: 'Bittylicious charges today - GBP/BTC  is 1.5%; GBP/LTC is 2.5%; GBP/GRS is 15%'

Types of Dexes Whoa!! Steep learning-curve here, campers.
If you see a DEX marked 'NC,' it has a native currency. Some DEXes are the native currency -- 0x!!

Type One 'cryptocurrency-exchange platform' --
Using a Type One is like buying a can of soft drink, campers: you put money in; the can comes out; end of transaction.

Type Two  cryptocurrency-exchange-platform-plus-account
Changelly. It's set up as crypto-exchange platform; but it requires an account, apparently to provide transaction records.

All the DEX types from here on are ‘traditional format.’  That is, you can put up multiple buy- and sell-bids at the same time. 

Type Three  This category is still unclear:  Whatever BISQ is. I’ve seen the term 'escrow-service DEX.' BISQ has arbitrators. Seems to be a primary fiat-crypto-purchase venue. And although BISQ does provide a 'traditional format,' it’s a million miles short of  what DEXes like Cryptobridge are offering. 

Type Four  This category is still unclear:  Originally, it was just the group of dexes that are 'crypto-specific,' like Waves' DEX and OmiseGo and 0x and BTS's DEXes. But I also had this:
'The fourth type is 'DEX Plus.' These DEXes may handle the admin of ICOs, and 'crowdfunding, voting and loyalty programs for businesses.'

Type Five      The fifth type of DEX is CEX-DEX: combination centralised-decentralised
Bitfinex's ETHfinex plans to decentalise.

Type Six Peer-to-peer sites like Localbitcoins and hodlhodl? We are going to ignore them. This category has been abandoned.

Here’s why:

at first, we thought that ‘DEX’ was just ‘anonymity plus anti-hackability.’ But it’s now clear that liquidity aggregation is going to result in a DEX-verse that includes much more than just individuals trading cryptos. It could incorporate dark-web markets, Wall-Street markets, peer-to-peer sites like Localbitcoins, traditional merchants, and who knows what else!

But developing GRS is our main goal, and understanding DEXes is a part of that; but we must be satisfied with a basic understanding, so we can move quickly to getting GRS listed on more DEXes, and to helping GRS community members to begin providing volume on DEXes.

Type Seven '2nd-generation DEXes'!!: Radar Relay?
'order book is off-chain/funds don't leave wallet until trade is executed/multople order books can be tied together/has 'order relayers/'  At about 5:50 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2AOKA67acY

'matches and settles trades 50X the speed of previous generation decentralized exchange.'  Post 6 here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2738723.0         Start catch-up me here. Details to follow, but these guys clearly see a range of other DEXes as already way out of date.

Type Eight 'OpenLedger is a blockchain based company based out of Denmark that provides decentralized solutions for the crypto market.' https://coinsutra.com/best-decentralized-exchanges-dex/
So . . . is a 'DEX' about being anonymous? or about being unhackable? or both? Gonna add details here.
But a corporate conglomerate DEX that requires KYC is not my idea of a DEX!
[And how are these related to Type Five?]

Type Nine Category unclear -- but gonna squeeze it in here: 'Imagine trading cryptocurrency securely, without the need for an account.'      https://symetria.io/         So, yet to launch. And basically centralised . . . but has a number of DEX-ish attributes.

'A decentralized exchange (DEX) is a marketplace for cryptocurrencies or blockchain investments that is totally open sourced.'  http://cryptoincome.io/dex-decentralized-exchange/     I doubt OpenLedger qualifies as a DEX by this definition. Please post your thoughts on this.

Types We Don't Understand Yet It seems that at this point I am categorising DEXes by their 'facades,' so to speak, by what you see when you first get on one. BISQ and Cryptobridge, for example, have fabulously different ‘facades.’
This is a serious error.

For example, 'There are two generally understood paths to perform Atomic Swaps on the LN . . . : directly from one LN node to another LN node [or] routing your swap through an intermediary.'     https://cointelegraph.com/news/decentralized-exchanges-off-chain-atomic-swaps-and-a-brief-look-into-the-future

So, Type Seven is ‘second generation’? but heck, we haven’t even finished defining first generation! We must start ‘looking under the hood’ of the DEXes we review, and identify the different technologies that they use.
(Check the quotation, above, about how Cryptobridge works. The wording of the explanation is very close to a circular argument. It almost says, 'Cryptobridge is decentralised because it has no single point of failure.')

'Hydro is a network layer protocol for high performance decentralized exchanges and marketplaces'
Even the whitepaper lacks a description of the instrument. The project doesn't have a good feel to it. But we'll keep an eye out for the tech involved.

'By splitting a blockchain by transaction type (DEX, dApp, social network, and so on), you can increase the transactional capacity'  https://blog.altcoin.io/why-weve-chosen-a-plasma-like-sidechain-solution-for-our-dex-97737ca46b86

'What are State Channels?
State channels move blockchain interactions off-chain. Interactions on side roads, as opposed to the main highway. The benefits are efficiency, higher-speeds, anonymity, and a limited lifespan.'

'By splitting a blockchain by transaction type (DEX, dApp, social network, and so on), you can increase the transactional capacity in proportion with the number of divisions. For example, you could create a sub-chain on Ethereum for a DEX, operating independently on a Proof-of-Stake consensus mechanism, that effectively doubles transactional capacity. Three chains would triple it, four quadruples it, and so on, ad infinitum (in theory).' From the altcoin.io guys, in an email to me

List of Dexes:

Don't miss this list: https://distribuyed.github.io/index/
And this article is next: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoMarkets/comments/8dwlr4/introducing_enclaves_dex_a_new_liquidity/

https://cryptowolf.eu/: Lists GRS? Yes, but they don't buy GRS; they only sell it.  Conclusion: CryptoWolf is a poor exchange. Here's a description of their model: they only accept a small range of big cryptos. They sell a fair range of smaller coins. Their conversion rate is really really bad. That's it! That's their model! It also seems to have almost no community.
Just revamped themselves

https://easyrabbit.net/ Working on this one right now. Fees are low. Lay-out is okay. But what's most notable is that all the other cryptos you can buy (right-hand side) are in The Top 100. GRS is 165 on CMC this morning, but they put us on their list!

https://xchange.me    Lists GRS? Yes   NC New listing.
The sign-up is to gain a 50% discount on fees.
NC = https://www.coinexchange.io/market/EXCC/BTC -- pre-mined-air-dropped. Sigh. 
Here is the review I sent to Jackie:

'Review for Xchange.me: in the mid-term, Jackie, we hope to be listed on more solid 'two-way' platforms like this — where you can both buy AND sell GRS — but right now?             Xchange passes with flying colours. Their support replied to my 'Hello?' ticket. The 'slippage' on price is <2%. The range of cryptos you can buy with the four base-coins is not just large, but it's a satisfactory range, and includes VIA. The colour scheme and layout are commendable. The purchase — I bought a pinch of DGD with GRS — was fast.'

https://coinswitch.co/ : Lists GRS? Yes              But I'm learning that 'listed' doesn't necessarily mean a particular coin-to-coin trade is possible at any time. Lots to learn here! But I've completed a trial trade of ETH for DOGE.
And: Coinswitch claims to offer the aggregated bids of all major exchanges. 275 coins. 45,000 possible trading-pairs.
At this point, campers, Coinswitch really looks like the best actually-functioning-today DEX that GRS has.

https://www.altcoin.io : Lists GRS?    We thought we'd scored a listing, but it seems not. Gotta re-start the listing-process. [ 'The voting to add new tokens does not mean we will 100% add your token.'  https://feedback.altcoinexchange.com/?order=popular&filter=allexceptdone&q=#controls ]

Latest email. Have they launched? We'll be working here for a few days: https://plasma.altcoin.io/

https://crypto-bridge.org: List GRS? No      NC          Re-draft: I'd like to see someone else's review of Cryptobridge. I see a lot of unhappy campers in the Bitcointalk ANN thread (though the project is in beta). Another member has used CB. Said it was okay.

Cryptobridge Update: so, I spent an hour not being able to log on, and the next half hour not being able to log off. The dashboard looks like 'full-function cex.' And now waiting on a confirmation of some Cloak coin transferred on. EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoBridge/ -- Still no Cloak in my account. Yeh. It's all lookin' pretty beta! EDIT:  Have contacted support about the Cloak coin; and note the atmosphere here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoBridge/

BAM! The Cloak coin deposit came in, and I just made my first trade on a Type-Four DEX -- 'full dashboard' Doing a little trading (VRC) to get a hang of the UI.
25/4/2018 Still working on Cryptobridge. It has an active Bitcointalk thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2015949.1560    Just started looking at volumes and how to get a crypto listed.
DEX-exchange volumes are coming onto Coinmarketcap.
Got a reply to my Support ticket -- six days later. Not great.

Still on Cryptobridge: 'The main innovation is elimination of a single point of failure when trading cryptocurrencies online due to its decentralized nature and the use of a multi-signature federated gateway software . . . '
Okay. But I don't yet understand how this works. But I am trying to trade a teaspoon of QTUM, just to stay in touch.

https://changelly.com/ : Lists GRS? No.              Clumsy Arithmetic: BTC>ETH>BTC = 2.5% And they require an account? Okay, I have a Changelly account (which includes the option of 2FA). Thus I have access to my transaction records. But I assume I can be identified by my email address. Let's label Changelly a 'semi-DEX.'

https://shapeshift.io: Lists GRS? No.          Shapeshift is a crypto-exchange platform. It works. Next time, I'll pay attention to the details — but it's quick. And the premium is under 2%.

https://blocknet.co : Lists GRS? Hasn't launched yet.           Have a look here, at the peek at the GUI: https://medium.com/@theblocknetchannel/blocknet-decentralized-exchange-high-quality-images-a68d8fbd2b81     Niiiiiice!!

https://flyp.me NC : Lists GRS? No.               First trial yesterday. Went well.     Clumsy Arithmetic: BTC>ETH>BTC = 2.3%

https://www.cryptoex.me tl;dr: it doesn't exist.

BISQ : Lists GRS? Not any more.         Two IndiaMikeZulu members are experimenting with BISQ -- which was Bitsquare. Its format makes me wanna drown myself in a bucket. Got reeeeal low volume. But it works. Note that it uses arbitrators, so it's not perfectly trustless. It's a Type Three DEX.       Note: Redditor 'akexe' suggests that BISQ is the major player in the fiat-to-crypto field of DEXes: https://www.reddit.com/r/bisq/comments/88x4nn/not_impressed_with_bisq_for_trading_alt_coins/
Note: just given up! No volume. Counter-intuitive to use.

Barterdex Lists GRS? Yes NC    ‘Cross-chain atomic swaps’ and ah! It’s SuperNET, an NXT project. Sigh. Details to follow. (Anyone know a dev named ‘jl777’?)

BarterDEX is a download-the-app type of dex.

Update: You will need an Agama wallet: https://www.cryptocompare.com/wallets/agama/ You need a wallet for any coin you want to trade on this platform.

Check here -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaA7m50V5pk It notes that they are working with atomic swap automated order-matching; and I see 'CLI' -- command line -- which is presently beyond my skills.

Lightbulb! BarterDEX is an NXT-stable product. I don't like to publicly criticise any crypto, but NXT just never works properly. I'll see if I can get someone else to trial it.

Got it downloaded, and an account set up.
And gonna look carefully over this: https://komodoplatform.com/
And this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA_1H6oAT_E&t=756s

Update The model requires working with 'UTXO's -- details to follow. This involves making several small deposits. So, at this point, I have made three small deposits of Komodo, and am experimenting with small deposits of DOGE. Not sure how the Agama wallet fits in yet.

Update Update
'there are only three exchanges with a lower exchange volume than Barterdex'

This is the Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/komodoplatform/

I'm going to take a few days break from BarterDEX.

Notes on Type Fours

Waves DEX: how interesting! The Waves' DEX stats are on CMC: https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/waves-dex/
Obviously, the tokens of the Waves blockchain itself get preferential listing. Beyond that, just a handful of the biggies have pairs. So, it's unlikely that GRS would score a berth on such an exchange . . . unless we really hit the big time. However the more we learn about DEXes and how to get listings on DEXes, we more listings for GRS we'll be able to secure.

BTS: Xy notes that the BTS dex is not good, works only on desktop client

https://dailyhodl.com/2018/04/16/neos-first-decentralized-exchange-launches/ -- check the picture, in the article, of the dashboard. It's pretty much a full-function cex model.

Notes on Type Fives -- 'cex-DEXes'

Bitfinex's 'Ethfinex' will be such a hybrid. Will there be KYC? And we note that Ethfinex should have plenty of volume if it is drawing on Bitfinex. 'Ethfinex will actually have both centralized and decentralized portals, but the centralized version is what's live first.' https://www.reddit.com/r/0xProject/comments/7oiy59/ethfinex_ethfinex_is_launching_on_january_15th/

https://qurrex.com/ describes itself as a 'CEX-DEX,' a combination centralised-decentralised exchange. We're gonna look this one over: https://www.reddit.com/r/altcoin/comments/8al448/qurrex_cex_and_dex/

Big Noo Sub-Subject

It's becoming clear that 'exchange coins' are an integral part of . . . whatever we're trying to understand here. Both BTS and 0x are cryptos that incorporate a DEX. (I'm sure I had a crack at BTS several years ago. Sigh: gotta try again.)

Tee hee: some are coins on exchanges; some are exchanges on coins!

Edit re 0x: 'Ox is supposed to serve as an interface that will allow you to move ICOs, Ether, and Ethereum constructs such as smart contracts and Dapps around the Ethereum system.
OX is not a solution designed for everyday users. Instead, it looks like a professional solution designed for Ethereum developers and investors that are buying and selling large amounts of ICO tokens.'   http://cryptoincome.io/dex-decentralized-exchange/

Note: 0x has announced Ledger integration: https://www.coindesk.com/ledger-to-ledger-hardware-wallet-integrates-with-decentralized-exchange/

https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/cryptobridge/ -- 'CBO'
https://switcheo.exchange/ -- is on NEO

Ever-Changing List of Links













https://coinmetro.com/ -- check the section 'Decentralization and Atomic Swaps' here: https://coinmetro.com/whitepaper/       This ICO project aims at a wide range of services, including a DEX -- on which we guess their token would feature -- and white-label exchanges.

What Defines a DEX??

Accountless: The project should be accesible without registration, KYC or AML policies. ACL
Decentralized Capital Deposits (self-custodied): You should be able to trade directly out of your own wallet. DCD
Decentralized Client: The trades should be possibles through a downloadable client or build it from source. DC
Decentralized Development: The project should be open source. DD
Decentralized DNS: The project should be accessible through a decentralized domain name service (like ENS). DDNS
Decentralized Governance: The direction of the project should be governed by the project’s service providers. DG
Decentralized Order Books: Orderbooks should be synced among various parties to prevent any malicious behavior in a similar way that blockchain validation consensus is decentralized. DOB
Decentralized Order Matching: The matching of orders should be decentralized among different parties. DOM
Decentralized Swap: The usage of atomic swaps. The trader’s funds should go directly from one to the other without any other parties handling the funds. DS
Decentralized Settlement: DSTT
Fully Decentralized: FULLY
Open Protocol: OPRO

General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: March 10, 2018, 03:03:20 am »
'Around 21 percent of wealth advisers and private bankers surveyed by Knight Frank said their clients increased investments in cryptocurrencies in 2017.'


General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: March 09, 2018, 08:35:14 am »



A crypto colleague brought upthe same concern as me yesterday: anything that is not 100% shouting-out-loud enthusiastic is 'FUD.'

If you are -- like me -- a hobbyist crypto geek, and your funds are limited, here's some trading-advice:

we are all eager to 'get in at the bottom,' and thereby make a buck when prices rise again. But if you are at all unsure about Are we there yet?, then just wait. Keep your powder dry.

General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: March 07, 2018, 01:31:31 am »
'But in this modern age, things come and go faster than ever. And for now, most of the public doesn’t care that Bitcoin has already doubled from its low of around $5K. All they think is Bitcoin crashed from $20K. So right now, it is considered a loser unless you bought a long time ago. The notion of getting rich by buying Bitcoin now is not really a part of the narrative anymore among the general public.'


I was ridiculed in January for predicting that 2018 would be a 'sideways year' like 2014. But this writer seems to agree with me.

What's my point?

Well, very very many folks on Planet Krypto at this second are new arrivals. They aren't the libertarians and techie-miner guys -- folks with 'deeper roots' -- who were the cores of communities when things went pear-shaped in 2013. So, the long-timers need to focus on maintaining community enthusiasm.

General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: March 06, 2018, 01:46:39 am »
'I was able to buy things at yard sales with [GRS] the other day.'   

"More detail on the yard sale? My outfit luuurvs p2p"

'Literally asked if he'd accept the same value in cryptocurrency. Said yes I told him to download the mobile GRS App and made the payment and he was satisfied when it told him it was worth the sane ammt in dollars.'             


General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: March 05, 2018, 02:28:09 am »
'The Economist Intelligence Unit 'scores' the greatest global risk right now is a "prolonged fall in major stock markets." '

Ummm . . . yep.

'[The] favourable economic picture appears to come from a completely different world to the one where headlines are dominated by protectionist rhetoric, major territorial disputes, terrorism, surging cyber-crime and even the threat of nuclear war.'

Ummm . . . yep.

General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: March 03, 2018, 04:46:18 am »

Imagine Mr. Government saying, 'It could be a problem that the sun rises in the east; but instead of banning that, we're going to regulate instead.'

That is, the notion that the Government isn't going to 'ban [cryptos] outright' suggests that they could ban them outright. The word you're looking for here is 'disingenous' -- it's a synonym for 'dishonest.'

'According to Carney, cryptocurrencies do not threaten “financial stability” at the moment, but they could after more consumers get involved.'

Ummm . . . okay. So . . . not a bad thing now, but a bad thing later?  Which is exactly what 'threaten' means!

Carney is an ex-Goldman-Sachs flunky of the worst sort, a mouthpiece, an apparatchik. The sooner we dispense of him/his system, the better off we'll all be.

General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: March 02, 2018, 07:24:00 am »
The Proliferation of Types of Exchanges

In the beginning, there were no exchanges: geeks met in cafes, and p2p-ed from laptop to laptop.

Then suddenly there were (centralised) exchanges. Their numbers proliferated rapidly.
But they were all basically the same type of exchange: Bitcoin-altcoin trading-pairs.
Some did provide fiat-Bitcoin facilities; but my point remains: these exchanges were all quite similar.

Then the first decentralised exchanges were launched; but although we talked about their importance, we stuck to the centralised exchanges, where the real-time nature of the trading facilitated great profits.

But the events of 2017 sparked The Big Government Push-Back, and suddenly dexchanges began to attract interest, and more sprang into existence (and they exhibited the same sloppy structures, and arrogant protect-our-corporatist-arses attitude, that the centralised exchanges had assumed).

Lately though, we have entered a new phase. The types of exchanges has begun to increase. Ethfinex is coming. Bitcoin Futures began to be traded on Wall Street. A legacy bank is going to turn itself inside out, and become a ‘crypto-first’ institution. Livecoin looks like it’s gonna quietly allow a section of its clientele to operate without verification (but without customer support . . . ) -- ? Bitfinex has an OTC arena, and is also systematically weeding out the small players. Poloniex is gonna be something something under the thumb of Circle/Goldman Sachs. Robinhood, I understand, is both mobile and fees-free.

Anyone heard the term ‘unbanked’ recently? No, me neither.

Safe-haven function has the upper hand, and will have for some time.

And down the track? I’d like to see GRS launch a merchant-adoption-and-support exchange, which would incorporate an ‘e-mall’ were you could buy stuff with cryptos. We theorized this at length in 2015.

General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: March 01, 2018, 06:50:14 am »
'China's National Internet Finance Association, a self-regulatory organization under the PBoC . . . '


Self-regulatory organisation 'under' the People's Bank of The Communist Dictatorship of China . . .

Gee. Wow.

General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: February 28, 2018, 07:56:45 am »

Just a reminder of the 'Three Ways':

One: everyone becomes tax compliant/cryptos are 'co-opted' by the legacy system. 'Co-opted' means 'absorbed.'

Two: dexchanges provide a (sufficient?) platform for anonymous trading.

Three: a culture of grass-roots p2p grows as the economy worsens.

And there are four players: the first is people. The second is instutions. The third is regulatory bodies. The last is the GFC.

I have no doubt that, at any time in the last decade, if the GFC had become again as bad a problem as it was in 2009, cryptos would have run beyond the ability of governments to control them: their value as currencies would have become clear.

At present, though, the greater involvement of institutions, and the lesser interest of 'the unbanked,' has given 'safe-haven function' the upper hand. Circumstances have put the focus on cryptos as speculative-trading instruments.

And things will continue this way for a while, until economic problems bring p2p back into play.

General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: February 26, 2018, 12:49:54 pm »
'Koinex ( Indian crypto exchange ) just surpasses binance in REQ 24hours trade volume'     


General Discussion / Re: Daily Crypto Nooooooz
« on: February 25, 2018, 03:27:33 am »
"If the government wants to introduce some control on operations done via crypto on its territory, it does make a lot of sense to issue its own cryptocurrency," he said.


'Crypto' has both a technical and a political definition. Politically, it signals two things: non-governmental and anti-inflationary.

So the Petro is really an 'e-fiat': a form of (non-gold-backed) government currency that has a solely electronic form rather than a partially electronic form. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's a red herring.

But it will fool some folks. But not for long.

Then will come the interesting part: will ordinary folks actually find it easier to get to real cryptos because they already have some experience of a fake crypto? Watch this space!!

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